Taking the Keys Away

Transcript of Interview: “Taking the Keys Away”

Mike Barnes:

Yeah, I think so many of us have run into this problem. I know you have especially; you’ve had lots and lots of stories about taking the keys away. How do you get mom or dad to stop driving? It can be tough. Today we’re going to talk to Matt Gurwell from Senior Care Authority. Thanks so much for being with us. And he is also a retired Ohio State Trooper, so you have a lot of driving experience, obviously.

Matt Gurwell:

Yeah, it’s good to have you. Thank you for having me.

Kim Barnes:

So many of us run into this situation where it’s like, what do we do because mom wants to keep driving or dad wants to keep driving and they’re adamant about it, and we don’t think maybe they should.

Matt Gurwell:

Well, if I can offer some tips, the first thing we need to decide is, are you accurate in your assessment that mom needs to maybe give up driving, or is it just an opinion? Those decisions need to be based on facts. If you’ve got someone that you’re concerned about their driving abilities due to declines in either their cognitive and or their physical abilities, we need to reduce all the emotion, opinion, and speculation to just facts. Decide what your opinion is based on. Has mom had some recent fender benders? Is mom getting lost more often? Was dad stopped by the police and brought home because he couldn’t remember his address? Things like that are facts. With those facts, then it’s much easier to approach your loved one. You don’t want to come to them and explain, “Mom, I think you’re a bad driver because you’re 85 years old.” That’s not good information. It’s very possible that mom or dad have been driving for 60-70 years and maybe have never had a traffic citation or been involved in a traffic crash. And now, all of a sudden, somebody half their age is telling them they shouldn’t be driving any longer, and that can be a tough pill to swallow. So again, all the more importance to support that conversation with facts.

Kim Barnes:

So you listed some kind of obvious signs that we might see, like a little fender bender or having some challenges. We had one person in the group who said that mom actually didn’t allow her to come over to her house for a couple of weeks, and she realized it was because she had hit the garage going in, and she didn’t want her daughter to see that she had done that until the car had been fixed. And the funny thing was, or I guess not funny, but it was her neighbor that had let the daughter know, “Hey, your mom ran into the garage.” So that is one of the more obvious signs of concern. What are maybe some of the more subtle signs that we can look for that it may be time to have this conversation?

Matt Gurwell:

That’s an excellent question, Kim. I’ve got two of many subjects that I’d like to mention here today. One is, believe this or not, there have been studies that have shown the more falls an older adult has had in their home or elsewhere is directly equivalent to their likelihood to be involved in a future traffic crash. Not only is there that strong correlation, but it’s more specific that the person with two or more falls within the past year is two and a half times as likely to actually be the at-fault driver in a future traffic crash. So if your loved one is falling, there’s all sorts of medical reasons for this, but if they have a history of falls, that’s a huge red flag, and it needs to be given some consideration to the driving.

Likewise with memory, a lot of times we overlook the important role that memory plays in older driver safety, but it is so critical. Of course, we have to focus on mom’s vision and mom’s reflexes and reaction time and her hearing and things like those physical attributes required for safe driving. But equally important is memory. Oftentimes, I have family members or an older driver themselves ask, “Look, I think I’m a good driver. No problems with the police, no crashes, no near misses, no nothing. But you’re telling me I shouldn’t drive any longer because my memory is shot. How is that a safety issue?” Families will come to us and say, “Yes, mom’s memory is bad, but she doesn’t seem to have any problem physically driving. I see that to be a convenience issue more than a safety issue.” Everybody’s going to get lost, she’s going to miss her doctor’s appointment, she’s going to spend more on this expensive gas that we’ve got now, but how is it a safety issue?

The headline in the Washington Post several years ago read, “Elderly Couple Found Frozen to Death After Getting Lost on Drive.” That’s a terribly tragic story, but sadly, Kim, there are many stories like that. They occur every day across the country. We’ve all turned on the evening news and seen where an older adult has left Austin, Texas, to get a loaf of bread, and they find them three or four days later several states away because they were lost. I can tell you, too, as state troopers, we would come across older drivers on occasion that were lost and had absolutely no idea where they were, even what state they were in. That can lead to other problems, too—a traffic crash, yes, of course, but also becoming a victim of crime. If they’re lost, confused, and scared, they may or may not have much money with them. They are trying to get themselves unlost, so to speak, and they pull into a gas station in a poor part of some larger city, walk up to the bulletproof glass, and bang on the window asking for directions back to Austin, Texas, from Cleveland, Ohio. They make themselves excellent candidates to become a victim of crime. So there’s all sorts of tragic endings to an older driver continuing to drive with a decline in memory.

Mike Barnes:

I think it’s easier for us to see the problems that mom or dad might have, but so many times we have people in our group who say, “Mom or dad says no, I’m not giving up these keys.” What do we do then? Do we get someone else involved, and who do we get?

Matt Gurwell:

That’s an excellent question as well. Oftentimes, the individual’s physician can help with those conversations. Fortunately, we’re still in a good day where older adults respect their doctor. Nowadays, respect is kind of on a slippery slope with law enforcement and the medical profession as well, but older folks still respect their doctors. So if you can get the individual’s doctor to kind of help introduce this topic to mom or dad, that might be very helpful. And if all else fails, we’ve got our program offered at Senior Care Authority, titled the Beyond Driving with Dignity program, where we send one of our representatives in to meet with mom or dad, sit down at their kitchen table with them, and go through a process. It takes about two, two and a half hours to go through the program with them, and we help them make the right decisions about their driving future.

Kim Barnes:

How do you actually get that conversation started? Because I know with my mom, this was very much an issue, and we were able to kind of buy some time because she’d had an eye surgery. So that made it sort of an easy, “Well, we need to get your eye to heal, and we need to watch that.” For a while, the doctor was able to say, “We don’t think it’s good for you to drive.” But there came a point where she said, “Okay, now it’s on you,” meaning my brother and me. For me, I was able to sort of appeal to her sense of, “Maybe your vision isn’t quite as good, and I know that you would feel terrible if you hit a kid on their bike because you just didn’t see them.” I don’t know if that’s the right approach. I kind of appealed to her sense of, “I know she would feel awful if she hurt somebody else.” Obviously, I don’t want her to hurt herself either, but that seemed to be an approach. I mean, you don’t want to scare them or guilt them, but I don’t know if that was a good approach or not, but it worked with my mom.

Matt Gurwell:

Kim, that’s a loaded question. Family dynamics are a funny thing. What works for Kim won’t work for anybody else and vice versa. So it sounds like your approach was the perfect approach because it worked. But again, that may not work in the next family. The important thing I like to encourage families to do is to begin having the driving conversation with mom or dad today, regardless of where they’re at on the safe driving continuum. If you do that, if you say, “Mom, did you see where the older driver left town here to get a loaf of bread, and they didn’t find her for a week, several states away?” and start initiating those types of conversations now, if and when it comes time to make them more serious, you’re already comfortable talking to her about safe driving. Share tragic stories with her that you’ve seen on the news. “Mom, did you see where the older driver ran over somebody in the Walmart parking lot?” Take that one tiny step further: “Mom, if ever you’re not safe to drive, I hope that you listen to my brother and me when we approach you about it.” Then, if and when that day comes, you’re already comfortable having those types of driving conversations with your loved one.

Mike Barnes:

There was one woman that I talked to who said that she actually wrote herself a letter and gave it to her kids and said, “If I get to the point where I shouldn’t be driving anymore, show me this letter that I wrote to myself, saying when my kids tell me it’s time to quit driving, I will quit driving.” I think, to your point, so much of it depends on knowing your parents, that relationship, and what might work with them. Because what works with my mom probably won’t work with your dad.

Matt Gurwell:

Absolutely. Besides having that conversation, don’t you think it’s good that at any age, whether your parents are 65, 70, 75, or 80, just maybe take a drive with them every once in a while when you visit? Like, “Hey, let’s run to the store. You can drive.”

Kim Barnes:

Yes, absolutely. Watch.

Matt Gurwell:

Absolutely. It goes back to what we talked about initially, that these conversations need to be based on facts. There’s no better way to get facts than getting in the car and riding with mom. That’s an excellent idea. Back to what you talked about, Kim, the letter. We have what we call a family driving agreement that pretty much serves the same purpose. It’s just a one-page document completed by the older driver themselves, and in essence, it says, “Today, I’m still a good, safe driver, but if I ever lose my ability to drive safely, I will trust so-and-so.” The older driver is free to write the name of anybody they want. It might be my daughter Kim, it might be my son Mike. They’ll write their name in there and sign it. It’s just an informal family agreement. Just like you described, Kim, if that day does arrive, a lot of times families have found benefit in presenting this family driving agreement back to the older person. They are still in charge, so to speak, of their driving retirement. They are the ones actually making the final decision.

Kim Barnes:

I think one thing that you shared with us when we talked previously was that when it can be their decision and not the kids’ decision, that empowers them.

Matt Gurwell:

Absolutely, Kim. Our whole program, Beyond Driving with Dignity, is designed to do exactly that. The word “dignity” is in the title, Beyond Driving with Dignity, because that is such an important component of this program. Anybody can take dad’s keys from him or his car; it’s called a tow truck. You can do it from anywhere in the country. You can have it done in five minutes. This program is not that. It is focused on doing what’s in the best interest of his safety and the safety of the motoring public, but immediately behind that, we place a huge emphasis on helping him maintain his dignity, pride, and independence through what can certainly be described as one of life’s most difficult transitions: driving retirement. We place a ton of emphasis on having him be the decision-maker, not me. We prefaced the whole session with, “Look, I have good news for you, Mr. Jones. I’m not the decision-maker here. This isn’t a pass-or-fail test. I’m going to offer you recommendations, and I hope you take them seriously. But at the end of the day, it’s your decision to make.”

No matter how bad a driver you might be, you can be the worst driver I’ve ever met, but I’m not going to walk out of here with your car or your keys. It’s still your decision. By doing that, they take ownership of the decisions that are made. Also, that’s one of the benefits—they’re okay with it because they’re the ones that decided. They’re not mad at anybody. They’re not mad at their daughter, their son, the doctor, the police, the court, the Department of Public Safety, or the BMV, because it was their decision. We’ve had tremendous success with this program. Two-thirds of the older drivers we meet with actually retire from driving as a direct result of the session. I don’t really look for that percentage to go any higher because many of the people we meet with simply don’t need to give up driving. If they don’t, we tell them that too, that we think they’re doing an excellent job and to call us back if anything changes.

Kim Barnes:

One last question that you kind of brought up that I wanted to follow up on is when they are older and need to renew their driver’s license. I know every state may be a little bit different as far as if they require a driving test, but I know that there are some in our group who said they took their mom or dad down to get their driver’s license renewed, and darn it, they approved. They didn’t think they should, but they said, “Yes, you should keep driving.” That would be also potentially one other step, is your Department of Public Safety or whoever it is that issues the licenses?

Matt Gurwell:

Yes, absolutely. That’s kind of a double-edged sword, though. If you don’t think mom should be driving and you’re hoping that when she goes and takes her vision exam to renew her license that she won’t pass it, if you’re banking on that and she does pass it, you’re looking at an uphill battle. You can argue forever, “Look, the state themselves said I was okay to continue.”

Mike Barnes:

That’s a good point.

Kim Barnes:

Yeah, good point. You don’t want to rely on that.

Mike Barnes:

Yeah, that’s a good point. The state says I’m okay.

Matt Gurwell:

Exactly, exactly. It can kind of backfire on families.

Kim Barnes:

Matt, thanks so much for all the tips and suggestions. It’s going to help so many people. We really appreciate it.

Matt Gurwell:

Excellent. Thank you for having me.

Mike Barnes:

Well, it gives you a lot of ideas. 

Kim Barnes:

It is so hard because it is such a sign of independence to be able to hop in your car and go where you want to go. Having to pull that away or ask them to consider doing that, although now there are lots of ride-sharing services and it’s certainly easier to get around than it used to be without having a car, but still, I think it’s more of an independence thing.

Mike Barnes:

Yeah, my dad’s still driving, so I guess the day is coming, but for now, I guess I’m in the clear. Hey, if you have any other tips or suggestions about ideas for topics you’d like covered, let us know here on Parenting Aging Parents.

*This transcript is auto-generated. Please excuse any typos or mistakes.