Trying to “convince” your aging parent

Transcript of Interview: “Trying to “convince” your aging parent”

Mike Barnes: I think one of the hardest things that we have to deal with sometimes with our aging parents is kind of convincing them what to do. Sometimes we think we know what they’re supposed to do.

Kim Barnes: And trying to get them to do what we want them to do.Yes, we decided to bring in Sarah Hyde Williams today. She’s with Senior Living Advisors of Austin. Thanks so much for being with us today. I know you deal with this issue a lot.

Sarah Hyde-Williams: I talk an awful lot of families through this very same thing, yes.

Kim Barnes: Well, I think that, you know, I can point back to when I wanted my mom to start looking into the idea of moving into independent living. While I and my brother thought this would be the best option for her, she wasn’t super receptive at first. It really took us stepping back, and it was my uncle, actually her brother, who brought up the idea again, and it worked that time to where it became mom’s idea. So, I think the challenge is, it’s just sort of like when we have children, you want it to be their idea. But how do we make that happen, if you will?

Sarah Hyde-Williams: Yes, I talk an awful lot with my hands, and in the trainings that I do, it’s about being able to see from someone else’s perspective, whether or not they still have that ability to do so or not, or if they flat out don’t see the need for it.

Kim Barnes: Right, I think the stubbornness is sometimes the first issue. So, let’s start with focusing on the parents of ours who do have the cognitive ability to be able to make their own decisions. We’ll start there first, 

Mike Barnes: But we still want to convince them that this is probably a better way. “Dad, or this, Mom, let’s do it this way.” It’s not always easy to do.

Sarah Hyde-Williams: Absolutely. So, that’s a tough conversation we have to have. There are a couple of ways to go about that. Instead of saying, “Could you do this?” because we know they have the capability to do it, try saying, “Would you?” or “This would really help me out.” Or, if they are within those capabilities of making that decision, say, “Hey, we want to propose an idea to you. What do you think?”

Kim Barnes: And what do you do when they say, “Not interested,” or you know that they just really don’t want to do it, even though you ask them to?

Sarah Hyde-Williams: Yes, oftentimes families will say, “Hey, it’s a safety concern. I see a safety concern.” If it’s really not, and we’re just thinking it’s a really cool idea because we want Mom to have more socialization, in essence, is this the hill we want to die on? Is this the conversation we absolutely have to have? Can we table it for a little bit later and talk about it at a later time when they’re thinking, “Hey, Kim, I was thinking about all my friends who live down at the independent living community down the road. I was thinking that it might be a good time to move.” Eureka!

Kim Barnes: Thankfully, that’s what ended up happening to me. We had talked about this with my mom at Christmas time, and her brother came to see her in January, and she calls me and says, “Oh, hey, I can’t wait for you to come so you can see where I’m moving.” I said, “Oh, you’re moving, are you? Great!” While at first, I was very shocked and sort of, “Did you sign a contract?” and “I wish you would have talked to us about this before,” on the one hand, though, I was so grateful that it was her decision.

Sarah Hyde-Williams: Yes, absolutely decision. 

Kim Barnes: Even though she was nervous about it and did have some hesitations as it got closer, she still could say, “Well, Mom, this is what you decided would be a really good option.” Do you feel like these are the conversations or situations that come up most when we’re wanting our parents either to bring in help at home, move to a retirement community, or take the keys away? Are those the kinds of conversations that you see most often?

Sarah Hyde-Williams: Any or all of those, and the majority of those at their very root cause are safety measures. Those are measures that we are concerned that if we don’t make a move or bring in help or give up the keys, some harm will come either to them or others.

Mike Barnes: The hard part to me is that it’s such a psychological game because we have to deal with our parents and the relationship that we already have there, and their attitude about things, you know, how they are, how we are, and we’re all different. It’s hard for me to see how Kim deals with her mom and copy that for how I deal with my dad because everyone’s different. So in that way, it’s such a game that you have to figure out what’s best for you.

Sarah Hyde-Williams: Every single family is different, every individual is different, and that’s where those family dynamics come into play. We know that Mom needs this to be her idea, and therefore we’re going to plant those little seeds or like Hansel and Gretel, we’re going to put down the little cookie crumbs and lead them to the decision of, “You know what? I really should move,” or “I should bring in some help. These are getting harder for me,” or “Here’s the keys.” Those are some of those ideas that we can plant those seeds, but ultimately, if they’re within the capabilities of making that decision for themselves, they should be led to that idea, but it really needs to be their idea.

Kim Barnes: I feel like sometimes, I would imagine, because I haven’t been in that situation myself, but I imagine there’s a control issue. Not control in a bad way, but just control of, “If I move to independent living or if I give up the keys, I’m losing a lot of my independence. I’m losing some of my control.” How do we take that into consideration? It’s easy for us as the child to look at them and say, “Mom, this would be the best thing for you,” but how do we also think about where they’re coming from?

Sarah Hyde-Williams: We have to think about where they’re coming from very much so. If we can talk about driving for a second, that is the first piece of independence that we got. Can you guys remember when we were 15 or 16, we got our driver’s permit, we came home saying, “Dad, can I borrow the keys to the car? I’m going to take my girlfriend out for a date night to the movies.” That was freedom. So to turn around at the age of 75 or 80 and have to give that back up, it’s very much a loss of freedom and independence. But knowing there may be a safety measure in that as well, they’re not thinking about that piece. Maybe some alternatives, like, “Absolutely, call me anytime, I’ll take you where you need to go,” or providing alternatives within their control to make that happen so they don’t lose that independence per se, they just don’t hold those car keys any longer.

Kim Barnes: They’re not used to us telling them what to do. They’re the parent. They’ve most of our lives told us what to do.

Sarah Hyde-Williams: Yes, very much so. They’re used to making those decisions, watching out for us. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and we are watching out for them, and we see things that maybe they don’t.

Mike Barnes: I love the analogy you use about getting your driver’s license as a teenager because Kim and I were talking over the weekend about how, in so many ways, dealing with aging parents—while we’re not very experienced with it, we have been very experienced dealing with teenagers. It’s so similar in a lot of ways that you have to convince them to make the right choice on their part by themselves, but we’re kind of pushing them that way.

Sarah Hyde-Williams: Yes, another piece of this in my dementia work is that as teenagers, we don’t fully develop that prefrontal cortex, that ability to use judgment and insight and weigh decisions until we’re 20 or 25. Girls develop that sooner, but that is also the first thing we lose through the course of brain change as we age. So that ability to see it from somebody else’s point of view, the ability to make good judgments, have insight, and say, “Hey, now is the time, let me give up the keys,” is often lost.

Kim Barnes: It just raises so many tough situations for them. When you do have some dementia involved, what are the things that might help us help them see those challenges? Sometimes they either may forget that we’ve had the issue with, “Oh yeah, you’ve locked yourself out of your phone 10 times this week,” or “You’re relying on help too much at the independent living,” or whatever those situations are, or “You gave money again over the phone to somebody.” With dementia, how do you help them see some of those things when they may not remember what you’ve asked them to do?

Sarah Hyde-Williams: It’s the inability of having that skill to have that judgment, insight, and ability to do for themselves any longer. So, we have to be able to either make that decision to step in or step back. If it is truly a safety measure, there are some things that we can do behind the scenes, like changing the settings on their phone or the ability to make long-distance phone calls. We can do some things behind the scenes, but also being able to step in and make those decisions and be okay with that.

Mike Barnes: But that’s not always easy, especially if you have to actually “make them do something.” That’s hard to do sometimes.

Sarah Hyde-Williams: At its very core, this is a person we are in a relationship with. We’re not in control of them. We’re not making them do something they don’t want to do, but thinking about it in other terms of, “If I step in, is it okay that she may be mad at me for a little bit and it will dissipate?” Or, “Am I okay with stepping back and allowing something bad to happen?”

Kim Barnes: How do you know which is the right action? 

Mike Barnes: Again, that’s so much like having teenagers. We’ve dealt with that with teenagers in the past, and it’s similar in that respect, I think.

Sarah Hyde-Williams: That is where being in that parental role now that the shoe is on the other foot, we have to make a judgment call. Is it in their best interest? Do we need to make this happen? No guilt, no shame. We make the decision knowing that there may be some hard feelings, but they will get over that. Or do we step back and allow the chips to fall where they may? Who’s to say it ends up in an APS referral because there are some safety issues at play, or we wait until something happens, maybe an emergency room visit, and now we have to make the decision and someone else gets to be the bad guy, like the doctor or the case manager who says, “Now you have to move to assisted living.”

Kim Barnes: And I think it’s so hard when you can see, just like with our kids, often you see where this is leading. When they start driving or whatever it is, you can almost anticipate, “This is not going to end well.” Yet sometimes having to make the decision to let them fail so that they can learn from it is different with our parents. Certainly, when there’s a safety issue, it’s very different than if it’s just, “Okay, you might have given somebody a teenager.”

Sarah Hyde-Williams: I know. I worked with a family recently where Dad felt compelled to change light bulbs. To change those light bulbs, he needed to get up on a five-foot ladder. They moved the ladder. “Where is that ladder? Oh, well, it was here just the other day.” “Can we do that later? Let’s have dinner first and then we’ll go find the ladder.” That type of thing, where we make modifications in their environment. This is truly when dementia is at play. We don’t want to trick them or fool them, but we can arrange that environment to be safer, put us at greater peace of mind, and keep them safe.

Kim Barnes: So, definitely some things to think about as far as what actions we can potentially take that eliminate some of those potential safety challenges so that everybody gets a win. And then, when there are those situations where we’re not in control because if they have the cognitive ability to make their own decisions, they can make their own decisions. We don’t have the authority to do that for them unless we have to get that authority, and that becomes a whole different issue, right?

Sarah Hyde-Williams: It does. A power of attorney is great, but they still have free will. It depends on the way the power of attorney is written. You’ve had a phenomenal attorney on who has spoken to powers of attorney. Guardianship is another matter. If we have to go down that road, it does give us the authority to make that decision. Oftentimes, that’s a last stop for most families.

Kim Barnes: I guess the bottom line is to learn the tools that we can use to help have these conversations with our parents, help try to convince them that our idea might be the right challenge, and yet still let it be their decision.

Sarah Hyde-Williams: Yes, plant those little seeds.

Kim Barnes: And be willing, because I think the hardest thing, something we see in our group often is the frustration of, “I know this is the right thing for my parents, and they won’t do it.” How do you step back without feeling guilty or getting upset?

Sarah Hyde-Williams: Very much so.

Mike Barnes: Sarah Hyde Williams, thanks so much for all these tips. It’s going to help a lot.

Sarah Hyde-Williams: You’re welcome. It convinced our parents in so many ways. It is challenging because some parents are going to be more easily convinced than others.

Mike Barnes: Yes, it’s not always easy, but you do the best that you can. If you have any topics you’d like for us to discuss here on Parenting Aging Parents, please let us know.

*This transcript is auto-generated. Please excuse any typos or mistakes.