When Caring for your Parent causes Problems with Your Brother or Sister

Transcript of Interview: “When Caring for your Parent causes Problems with Your Brother or Sister”

Mike: You know, when we’re talking and giving presentations, we always talk about the legal aspects, housing and financial stuff like that. But we always say the very first thing you need to do, talk to your siblings, make sure you’re on the same page.

Kim: There are a lot of emotions that come up when that happens.
Yeah. So today we are bringing in Leigh Ashley, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist.
Thanks so much, Leigh, for being with us today.

Leigh Ashley: You’re welcome. Glad to be here. Thank you for having me.

Kim: As I mentioned, you know, as we’re talking with our siblings, a lot of things can bubble up. I feel like there’s things that maybe were issues when we were children. And from the things that we see in our community, a lot of those challenges, or the good things too, just come back almost tenfold now that we’re helping our parents. So where do we even start with this?

Leigh Ashley: Yes. Well, I appreciate what you already said and just talking, but remembering when you are talking with your siblings, a lot of us come to the table with whatever that stuff was from our childhood days. And a lot of times, I think one of the reasons why you mentioned it being tenfold is because we’ve gone a long time without making any of those repairs, without really dealing with some of those old ouches that were back there. And so when the stakes are higher and we’re having to deal with something as significant as taking care of mom or dad or both, those things do come back pretty intensely and we go right back to those same old roles, or at least that’s the template that we go back to.

Mike: I feel like we see that all the time because we tell people, you know, have that little sit down with your siblings and make sure you’re on the same page. But even after that, whether it’s a brother or sister, they decide, well, you’ve got it. I’m busy with my family, so I can’t do it. And then those tensions come back. What’s the very first thing we need to do when something like that happens?

Leigh Ashley: Well, this may be a little surprising and maybe not what you want to hear, but I would say the first thing to do is check yourself. How am I coming to the table? Because like you said, with all those emotions, all that history coming back into play, am I engaging in that old history as well? So I like to put myself in a calm place and step back and look at the landscape of things. What’s really going on right now? What are the facts of the situation? What do mom and dad need and what would be the ideal? And then we look at our family, our siblings as resources for how we can come together in a team atmosphere. Hopefully we can work on that, but how do we, how do we use the things that each sibling has to offer without judging what other people have to offer, by the way, and bring that to the table?

Kim: I know we’ve kind of talked often about playing to the strengths of our siblings and or ourselves as far as what are the things that I may be good at, where my brother might do some different things, that kind of thing. What happens though when there is disagreement in especially what’s the medical condition or is everybody really on board with what’s really going on with mom and dad or is one or two saying, oh yeah, no, I think they’re fine. And or even just the decisions of what to do next. So what happens when you have those disagreements?

Leigh Ashley: Well, unfortunately, like anything, you’re dealing with adults, right? Your parents are adults. They have legal status as adults. And what I think is most helpful is finding a common goal, a common ground. And that’s why you’re going to check yourself first so that you know what you can live with and what you can’t live with. In a sense, when you do that, when you operate according to your own value system with some judgment about what you think is appropriate for your parent, then you can come in more as a team player and listen to what your siblings may feel about that and negotiate. If you have an idea where you stand. The other thing that I’d say in dealing with your parents is because they’re adults, because they have that legal status as adults, you are in that awkward position of listening to them. And they need to be, to the extent possible, they need to have a voice in what they want to do, what they choose to do. So it can’t just be about what the siblings want and not enlist the parents as they’re capable.

Kim: What happens, I guess, when you feel like, okay, I feel like I’m checking myself. I’m trying to come in. I’m trying to do the best for my parents. And my siblings just say, no, I think you’re wrong. And or just if you push enough, we’ve seen this happen in our community where the other sibling or siblings will just say, okay, I’m out. You got it. And then put all the responsibility then on that one child.

Leigh Ashley: Well, that’s where you may get into negotiations, like with if there are any resources, any family funds, there does need to be a leader. And if there’s not a leader on a team, the team falls apart.

So it may be that there’s not enough goodwill, we could say, for any one person to lead. And if people do check out, I’m sorry to say that that is something that does happen. And maybe a different kind of approach or strategy [is needed] at that point. It doesn’t mean that we keep trying to get everybody on board. Sometimes, sometimes we have to acknowledge the reality that not everybody is going to be on board.

And I would say more in the loss, because this is where things get really intense quickly. Probably the reason for your question. We tend to try really hard. And then we’re working on being peacemaker with our own old strategies, which is where someone like myself might come in and be a help. Or what we do is we feel angry, resentful. We judge them for what they did. And we allow the cutoff, but we hold this anger, resentment, bitterness, because we’re doing all the work. And anytime we are fatigued, stressed, lonely, which is part of it, tired, those kinds of things will play into our own functioning.

And last but not least, I’ll say that a lot of times we do not welcome grief. We don’t mourn that we can’t get along with sibling well enough to take care of parents that according to our values. And so in that absence of grief, which is really the bridge to acceptance, if we can’t grieve it, mourn it so that we can accept that truth, and that, by the way, gives us the energy that we need to do more of the positive, constructive caretaking, then we stay stuck. And that’s that feeling between trying to make these people see it the way I see it so that we can take care of mom and dad. And then I’m fighting two battles at the same time, and no wonder I’m exhausted.

Mike: It’s hard for us to remember that we all, in a crisis situation, we all handle it differently, especially when grief is involved. So I may handle it differently than my sister. Kim may handle it differently from her brother. And when that happens, then our personalities may start clashing. And because we’re in a crisis mode, we kind of forget that, oh, there’s another way that other people are doing it differently and processing it differently. So how do we handle that? Because we see so much angst between siblings, whether it’s something relatively small about where mom or dad should be living, or how they should be treated, or something as big as you’re trying to take all the money, or you all are taking all the money, and people just don’t know exactly the first step to do to fix that.

Leigh Ashley: Well, let me give you three. One of the things that I do, I do a fair amount of trauma work, and I have seen this one principle help so many people, regardless of how intense their suffering may be. And so here are the three concepts.

One is choice. And so it may sound counterintuitive, but if you consider what choices do I have, what choices are there in the grand scheme of things for my parents, even if they sound extreme, like I could check out and do nothing. That’s one end of the continuum. What’s the other end of the continuum, which is 24-7 I’m a caregiver. And then what are the options in between? If we can take a step back and look at that continuum and see that we actually do have choices.

One of the reasons we cut off choices is because of our values. Our values say, no, I’m not going to do that. But sometimes we need
to take a step back and look at everything that’s possible because that gives us a sense of agency in our own lives. So choice is one.

The [2nd] one is context. And I even kind of alluded to context already. It’s that big picture. What is this whole thing? What’s going on? And I think if you recall, I know this sounds kind of obvious, so forgive me for that, but when you consider what this process is, that this is a gradual goodbye, we don’t hold space for that in our daily lives, but it certainly impacts your support team, as your group knows. It impacts daily life in a huge way. But because it’s often extended, the meals and the banana breads and things like that aren’t coming.

But I just want to remind you, we’re going through a “long goodbye”. And to your point, Mike, it takes all kinds of, it creates or evokes all kinds of mental and emotional responses. There are things that, there’s an urgency that I’m not gonna get that love or that affirmation, that approval that I’ve been longing for all this time. And I didn’t even really know how cutely I was longing for it until the goodbye began. And now maybe I’m even in competition with my siblings to feel special or to feel that significance that I was created to feel.

So the last thing, and I’ll try to be brief, is what you guys provide so beautifully, and that is connection. We need to know that we’re not alone. And I so appreciate your group and the work that you do because connection is a huge component of safety.

So choice, connection, and context are the three.

Kim: Yeah, good to know. Because one thing that I had that somebody shared with me, which I hadn’t thought of it in this way, is that the biggest challenge I think with these sibling challenges, if you will, is that when, if we’re not getting along with our siblings and it drives a deep wedge, as you mentioned previously, that can really damage relationships, that can have impact on the generations. [Long lasting.] Because long lasting, because if I’m not able to get along with my sibling, which then means that my children probably aren’t gonna be surrounded or be around their children. And just like that really can affect the family dynamics way beyond just this exact situation.

Leigh Ashley: Yes, yes. And I want to, I agree with you about that. I think a lot of times because we get so caught up in our own pain, in our own hurt, and we don’t have that support, we don’t have that community, and we don’t do our own work, we miss the opportunity that this is. Your parents aging and your siblings coming together is an amazing opportunity to revisit some of the ways things were and create new ways of being. New appreciations, seeing each other in a new light. There’s all kinds of adulthood and life experience that’s happened that can be contributed. So it is an opportunity. But again, I think you need vision for the relationship that way in order to continue to act in that direction.

Kim: So is it as simple as, I mean, not simple, but is it as simple as saying, hey, brother, sister, I think we need to sit down and really look at how this is impacting us. And I think there’s some other things at play here that are just the decisions that we need to make right now and try to either, if there’s forgiveness or healing or whatever, but I guess you have to have part, everybody has to be willing and interested in doing that.

Leigh Ashley: Well, here’s one thing that I’ll tell you behind the scenes. If there’s tension, if there’s anger and stress, chances are that person is not coming to the table and they’re at their best self. Could be if you’re feeling those things, you’re not coming to the table as your best self. And underneath anger is often grief, but also guilt, inferiority, fear, trauma, and shame, as we say. So what I find in this particular scenario is that a lot of times there’s grief and guilt and inferiority that are at work. So if you can put yourself in your sibling’s shoes as best as you can, recognizing that they’re also feeling likely a lot of those things, then you have a different approach. You can be a bridge builder in sharing a sense of guilt or sharing that loss, or even, I wish I could do it differently. I wish I could do it better. A lot of times we don’t say things like that. We stuff that part and we just respond to what the other person said. But if we can just take a minute, and again, safety is important for this and knowing where you stand with yourself, but to be able to say, I so wish that I could have done this for mom and dad and our budget is really hurting what my dreams are for them in their old age. Chances are your siblings can get on board with that as opposed to continuing to fight about the details.

Mike: I was just gonna say, communication is so big. And I think my last question is that I think the communication between siblings can be a huge step and can be a definitely a healing process, but so many people that we see in our group I think are past that and they need to get a little bit of help. Whether it’s a therapist, a counselor, a mediator, a pastor, an attorney / legal advice, even further than that and I guess my question is is how do you decide where to start. Because it’s one thing if, okay my sister and I can’t agree on anything, and and now our fighting is even worse and that’s to me that’s a little bit different than what we’ve seen to where some people say [for example] my brother is stealing 30 000 a year from my parents and I don’t know what to do about it

so I’m not sure about where, you know where to advise these people where they should start because it’s just a therapist or a counselor or do they need to actually get something even more legal involved as far as an attorney or the police?

Leigh Ashley:
well in your latter example, definitely an attorney [or the] police sounds appropriate. In the former example, when there’s when there’s that stress um and I would go honestly I go to and why I don’t like to do this. This is not my preference but there do need to be boundaries and boundaries keep me safe.
And they hopefully keep you safe and if you’ve been working at this for a while and you’ve tried some of these approaches – You’ve tried to talk.

There is an appropriate decision making time we’re releasing your siblings again you can’t you cannot stay in that tension of these two things indefinitely and keep yourself sane. The metaphor, overused metaphor, put on your own oxygen mask before you [help someone else], there’s a lot of Truth to that.

Mike: We tell that tip all the time

Leigh Ashley:
It is so true because that’s the ‘you’ that you bring to the table and you can’t deplete yourself.

So boundaries are important and that may mean that you’re making some decisions.

You’re saying what you’re going to do, this is the approach that I’m going to take and then you take those steps.

Then let the chips fall where they may.

Hopefully the sibling can come around, but if they don’t – they don’t

Kim:
My last question would be is How do you see, how do you help the other sibling see your perspective?
I know we have had examples in our group of people who will say

I’m single, and I don’t have children, so my my siblings assume that I should be the one that’s the primary caretaker because I have time

You know what I mean? Or that I don’t have my own family, immediate family, that I need to worry about. So how do you approach your family if you are the person that they’re just sort of expecting that to set the roles to figure out who’s roles right, right, and how do you play to everybody’s strikes?

Leigh Ashley:
Yeah, I think Honesty there um I know it’s there, there’s a benefit typically to being that person we do have a sense often of like um I am helping I am being a support and there’s that altruistic reward uh for that but on the other hand um it can it can come at a very high cost. I think they’re judgments that we make. If someone [else] decides how much time I have and what I should be doing with that time that’s really a boundary violation [and] they’ve kind of overstepped; they’ve overstepped what I should be doing with my time.

Just like with children when you’re and I’ve heard you guys talk about this too with raising kids and teenagers. There is a correlation between responsibility & accountability and I’m guaranteed frustration if I have …responsibility but … I’m not able to make those choices. [If] I have to come to you … when I make those decisions that’s a recipe for frustration and tension. So, If I’m going to have the responsibility I also need the authority to go with it.

Which means starts with what I do with my day, what I do with my time, and how much I’m willing to invest. The language might have to change after the person’s done a little bit of work and say I’m willing to give four hours or a day four hours a week, (whatever the case may be) four hours a month – and that’s that’s the best that I can do for right now. If I can do more I’ll let you know

But if we both come up short that may mean we need to see seek out additional resources, for example.

It’s the Judgment that gets us in trouble

Kim:
Yeah.. I think that the challenge sometimes, is that this almost opens up a whole can of worms that people aren’t sure what to do with. If somebody has listened and thought

yes, I yes and yes and yes. I hear you know. I feel like I’m living what you’re talking about.

Really what are the first steps, as far as knowing you know can I take some of the tools that you shared and try to implement or you know how do you know when you need to seek professional help?

Leigh Ashley:
Well, I would say if you’re feeling like your life is running you, … First start with this community. [The Parenting Aging Parents Community] it’s fantastic and the things that people share I so appreciate. So that’s a support network but if your support network is insufficient, even still, with what you’re experiencing then I go to the next layer out which is someone like a licensed professional counselor, marriage and family therapist, social worker, etc.

Sometimes life coaches have experience in these kinds of things. Then .. to your point about the legal after that.

But often so much of this is about the stories I tell myself about your behavior, Right.

It can be just judgment, and then Old Wounds – unresolved.

I do think [counseling] can contribute, … and help set boundaries so that you can feel good [feel better].

Kim:
Yeah
You are always the favorite,
you are always the troublemaker
you are always the whatever…

[These feelings are] something that you always go back to.

Leigh Ashley:
Yeah, right which is really difficult to overcome then right. So I’m not even fully heard if I was the “troublemaker” – when I go back home.

We all know this anybody who’s gone home for the holidays right? You return to that.. eight-year-old or that 12-year-old, that you were
when you go back home you go into those same habits of procedural memory and we all do.

This is an opportunity to show who else you are.

Kim: Yeah WOW..

Mike:
Thank you so much. You leave giving us a lot to think about and giving us

things to head toward, I guess you could say as far as steps to take, to fix things.

Leigh Ashley: oh great well I’m grateful for that thank you again for having me today

Mike: I think what Leigh has told us basically it comes down to Communication in so many ways but not only talking to ourselves to figure out what we want what we need to do by talking to our siblings

Kim:
Yeah it is it does open up that can of worms because it you just never know how they’re going to respond so uh it is something that you have to just sort of take step by step and get that help if you need it.

Mike:
Remember if there’s any topics you’d like us to talk about
let us know Parenting Aging Parents

*This transcript is auto-generated. Please excuse any typos or mistakes.