Finding the Right Place at the Right Time

Transcript of Interview: “Finding the Right Place at the Right Time”

Mike Barnes: Finding a place for Mom or Dad or both to live, that’s always tough. I know we’ve been through it ourselves.

Kim Barnes: Absolutely, and when they are on board, it makes such a big difference. We’re going to get into a lot of this discussion. Excited to introduce you to Ryan Frederick. He has written a book called Right Place, Right Time. We’re glad to have you with us today. There it is.

Ryan Frederick: That’s right, just launched. Thank you for having me.

Kim Barnes: Talk a little bit about where the idea of this book came from.

Ryan Frederick: I have been in the industry of housing and aging for really 15 years nationally. I’ve developed communities, been an executive for large companies, and an investor. What I found over time is that people more and more wonder, “What should I do?” I became the aging guy, I guess, in my friends and family circles. I thought perhaps I would save myself some time by writing a book. That might have been naive, right, the book process. But a lot of people didn’t necessarily know how to think about this in a deeper way because this is one of the decisions that really matters in your life. If you’re in the right place, a lot of things come easier, like the wind’s at your back. Whereas if you find yourself in the wrong place as you get older, it just makes a hard situation a lot harder. The book’s been out for about a month, and it’s been really well received, so it’s been exciting to see the impact. I think the pandemic has made a lot more people focus on the importance of place and recognizing that we have only one life, so how to make the most of it.

Mike Barnes: You use the phrase “easier.” I think it’s been easier for you maybe because you’ve taken the emotion out of it. Because I know for both of us, moving your mom into independent living, moving my mom into independent living, moving my mom into memory care, that’s all been very tough, mainly because of the emotions involved. With my mom, it was a matter of one year at Christmas, we said, “Mom, do you want to start looking at these things?” And she said, “No, absolutely not.” We thought, “Oh, this is going to be interesting.” Then, interestingly, her brother made the suggestion. It could be helpful sometimes bringing in their sibling. Her brother came in town and said, “Hey, let’s just go look at these places.” She said, “Well, all right.” Then two days later, I get a phone call and she says, “Hey, this is great. I want to let you know that I’m moving.” I said, “Oh, you are?” It made the transition still tricky sometimes because she got a little nervous, but because it was her idea, it made such a big difference.

Ryan Frederick: That’s a huge point. Also, thank you for the comment earlier because nothing about this is easy. Nothing about this is easy. I think, in particular, the personal agency, if people have a vision of what they want—and I say that from the parent’s perspective—if they have a vision of what they want, then it’s much easier for kids and extended family to help support that vision. What can happen sometimes is that people don’t have a vision or they have an unrealistic expectation of how their life will evolve, almost as if it will never change. Therefore, people really don’t have a plan, and it puts even greater responsibility on families and loved ones to sort out urgent situations. The real opportunity that kids have in parenting our parents is if we can find ways to help prompt them to think about these things. Part of what I do in the book is there’s a tendency to only look at the negative around aging. When actually, you look at the research, there’s something called the U-shaped happiness curve. Things are complex, but the U-shaped happiness curve is research that’s been done globally. It shows that you have a certain happiness level in your 20s, then it dips in your late 40s, early 50s. I like to think it has some combination of teenagers in the house. Then you work your way up. In your 70s and 80s, your self-reported happiness and well-being is higher than it’s ever been. Some of the research behind that is the idea that you can look back on the successes and legacy that you’ve had in your life and also have an appreciation for some of the things that you got all worked up about that don’t really matter in the end.

But that’s to say that if we have a mindset of what’s that next chapter, how can I grow in the next way and be encouraged by that, it allows people to see beyond maybe their single-family house or avoiding senior living at all costs. Everyone’s path is different, but it doesn’t have to be started from a place of loss or negativity.

Kim Barnes: And it’s not just finding a place; it’s, as you say, finding the right place. Look at my mom. She was resistant at first, she picked the place, and now she loves playing bridge every afternoon. My dad was resistant when my mom and dad moved, and about three months later, he tells me, “This is the best move we’ve ever made. I’m so glad we did this.” But there are other people that might not thrive in that situation. They may prefer to stay at home. What do you do when you and your parent don’t necessarily agree on what the right place is?

Ryan Frederick: Great question, Kim. A couple of things. I have a tool in the book—it’ll actually be on the Smart Living 360 website here shortly. It’s a self-assessment tool. It helps people take a step back through a series of questions: Do I have purpose in my life? Am I socially connected the way that I’d like to be? Am I physically active the way that I’d like to be? Am I financially well for a longer life? Is the physical space that I’m in appropriate for my current physical needs? It starts with having an honest evaluation of where I really am. Some people have now used the book and the tool, and it’s a helpful tool for the parent and also for the kids because they can do their assessment. It provides an opportunity to have a conversation that’s not just about, “Oh geez, Mom, we’re going to get you out of the house.” It’s more comprehensive, a broader piece that speaks to well-being. That starts getting the dialogue around it. At the same time, although you’re parenting your parents, it’s so important that it’s their life. You have to honor that and encourage that. There might be situations that are the right thing for your parents, their perception of that, even if it’s not the best thing for you. Honor that and understand what the risks are. I’ve got a friend here in Austin; his mom lives out in Virginia by a lake. His dad passed away several years ago. She’s not moving. She’s like, “This is my home. I’m going to be here.” He’s done his best to help her appreciate what the risks are, but at least everyone knows the risks. Recognize that people will have different paths and honor those paths, but at least have our eyes wide open.

Mike Barnes: But when you’re looking for the right time, we love our parents, so we don’t want it to be too late where you’ve waited too long and it’s the wrong time. That’s the fear that a lot of people our age have.

Ryan Frederick: By the way, that’s a very warranted fear because what ends up happening is, let’s say you’re in a single-family home with stairs, you don’t know your neighbors anymore, you’re not as active. That’s just not a recipe for a good outcome. If you’re there too long, the risks are greater. Typically, it’s a fall that happens. In the context of a fall, maybe you break a hip or something like that. That puts you on a totally different course where you’re not able to be thoughtful and strategic; it becomes urgent and pressing. Even in those situations, parents may have lost control of the decision-making. They may not be in a good capacity to make this critical, timely decision. I think you’re totally right, Mike. Part of it is, how can we have a set of conversations? With the holidays coming up, it’s actually a good time to raise some of these questions. It provides an opportunity for parents to say, “Maybe I’m not in the best place, but I certainly don’t want to go to senior living.” Good news, there are more and more options that are alternatives to what might traditionally be senior living.

Kim Barnes: I think there’s a gamut of options out there that aren’t just like, “Oh, I’m living in a retirement home.” My mom sometimes says, “I’m going back to the home,” and I’m like, “I know what you mean.” It’s just kind of funny. Having those conversations while everyone is of sound mind and it’s not a pressure situation or crisis situation makes a huge difference in how that conversation will likely go.

Mike Barnes: For the book, this would be something good for our parents to read as well.

Ryan Frederick: It is. It’s really written for people, I would say, between their 50s through early 80s where they can make a plan. What I found is that there are checklists out there, but there isn’t necessarily a broader, strategic but also very tactical book to help people understand why it matters, some of the tools to make decisions, and a lot of detail around what these options are. Kim, you mentioned that there’s a gamut between a single-family house and senior living. There is, and there’s more coming. Understanding the trade-offs is important. There’s also a piece I talk about called design thinking. It’s a business term; I went to Stanford for business school, and they’re into innovation. They have something called the design school, the Stanford D School. They have a process called design thinking. The idea is you have a hypothesis, build a prototype, and test the prototype to see if your hypothesis is accurate. It’s a good way to find out in the real world whether you have a good idea or not. The same thing applies here. If you have an idea of wanting to live in a downtown or move into senior living, there are ways to test it before selling your house and cutting ties. When you do those things, it can be difficult to reverse. That can be a good way to test this in a certain way. If your parents have friends in particular places, is there a way to get them more interaction there to demystify what it’s like? If it turns out you move into a place that’s physically right but it’s the wrong community, that rarely ends well.

Kim Barnes: Absolutely great advice. Show us the book one more time.

Ryan Frederick: Here it is.

Kim Barnes: This would be helpful for us as adult children as we’re helping our parents to maybe think about our own lives as well.

Ryan Frederick: That’s exactly right, for our kids. Everyone in the family. Johns Hopkins is the publisher, but you’re exactly right, Kim. Some people who have purchased it have read it in part to think about their parents, but they’re like, “Oh my gosh, this applies to me as well.” I’ve even had people in their 20s and 30s pick it up, and some of the principles apply. Place matters a lot more than many of us realize.

Mike Barnes: Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

Ryan Frederick: Thank you. Thanks for your time.

Mike Barnes: I can already see, pass the turkey, let’s talk about where you’re going to be living, that type of thing.

Kim Barnes: It’s important to have those conversations when it’s not a crisis and to start having worthwhile dialogue so we can be respectful of our parents’ wishes as well as trying to make things easier for everyone involved.

Mike Barnes: Remember, if you have any topics you’d like us to talk about, let us know. Parenting Aging Parents.

*This transcript is auto-generated. Please excuse any typos or mistakes.